Moss Motors, Ltd

All over the internet there have been opinions about proper oil to use now that zddp or whatever is out of many of the standbys. What 20w50 oil is now the recommended?  I hear  valvoline VR1 is acceptable.. Has there been a a basic agreement on a particula brand? AL

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Al swanson

Al,

The dust has not quite settled on this one yet. But I can tell you for certain that you want an oil WITH ZDDP in it, and one that says so on the label. Either that, or use an additive. We use BG Chemicals MOA, but the ZDDP Plus which Moss sells is also good. There are indeed some brands of high priced performance oils which still have the stuff, mostly for racing applications. We use Castrol 20W50 or 10W40 parts store oil, and add the ZDDP product to each oil change according to the instructions on the packaging..

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon

Motorbill, this is probably in that dust hasn't settled catagory, but do you have any feelings about the need for ZDDP in high mileage engines; mine for example, 101k ? I really don't know about what oil was used up to around 80k. Feel free to spekalate.  pb

I'm afraid I've been out of the loop. I wasn't even aware of the dust. What is ZDDP?

zach

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Happiness is an MGB!

I've read many articles about ZDDP. In short, it's an additive that is NO LONGER ADDED to (most) oils, however our older, high compression engines need it.

I purchased the individual bottles from Moss ($9 a piece), and throw one in with each oil change. There are some oil manufacturers that have recently, re-introduced it in some of their products. The other guys on the forum will be more up on exactly which ones. I've read all the labels and STILL can't determine which ones have it!

For a while there, it was a sure bet to use oils made for Diesel engines, but they too, have (mostly) discontinued ZDDP. 

 

 

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On their death bed, nobody ever said, "Gee I wish I'd spent more time at work!"

davey! Hey,man!  That zddp, from what I've heard, is a lubricant that is beneficial for the lubrication of the tappet to cam surface.

 I guess the hydraulic lifters of today's cars make it unnecessary...but what about us?

Actually, it doesn't matter whether an engine has solid or hydraulic lifters. Both expose the bottom of the lifter to the cam lobe. They are called flat tappet engines. It's the high pressure wiping action which causes the problem. Newer engines use roller contact lifters against the cam lobes. That's how they avoid this wiping action. The oil companies and the auto companies made this change to extend the life of catalytic converters, which are slowly degraded by the presence of zinc and phosforus (spelling?) That's fine, I guess. What tees me off is that they did this without saying a word to us. Surely they knew about the problems it could cause. Otherwise, why did the auto makers change over to rolling surface tappets? They ( the oil companies) have had the nerve to deny any responsibility, claiming they had no idea. Right...

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon

davey:

I've read many articles about ZDDP. In short, it's an additive that is NO LONGER ADDED to (most) oils, however our older, high compression engines need it.

It is still added, but in smaller amounts than in years past.  New additives are taking the place of ZDDP but no one has been able to say for certain whether or not they protect flat tappet engines as well as ZDDP did.  Lack of zinc is most damaging during break-in.  Most people believe that on a higher mileage engine it will have far less negative affects.

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Motorbill-

I was set to order some ZDDP Plus from Moss, then I noticed the disclaimer "not for use with catalytic converters". If the oil companies and automakers made the change to extend catalytic converter life, why would the additive product be discouraged for cars with catalytic converters by Moss? What's a good alternative? I just changed the oil and filter in my '79 B with Castrol GTX 10-30W. Auto parts employees give a foggy look if I speak of ZDDP.

By the way, have the Happiest of Happy Birthdays!

Mike Mann

Highland Ca

ZDDP was reduced in motor oils to extend catalytic converter life.  Adding it back in would reduce CC life, therefore it is not recommended.

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While it is true that ZDDP isn't particularly good for catalysts, plenty of it was being used in 1979 when your MGB was produced. Today's cats are "touchier", and OBD equipment recognizes the slightest deterioration in performance, tripping codes in the computer's memory. Nobody in 1979 was saying anything at all about what additives we could and couldn't use, except for lead. Moss has printed a disclaimer because it has to. I wouldn't blame them one bit. You should do what you think is right.

As far as whether on older, broken in engine does or doesn't need the stuff goes, there has not been enough record yet, but my experience in pulling apart a boatload of MG engines of all vintages tells me that the older ones need it as much as the ones being broken in. I'll tell you this: In the larger scheme of things, I'd rather replace a catalyst than overhaul and engine if I were its owner...

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon

 I just started using Valvoline VR1 20w50 Racing oil,,,, contains ZDDP ! This and going from a fram spin on filter to a Mobil 1m 1204 filter has increased my oil pressure 10lbs at idle and cruise (YEAH). Don't know if it was the oil or the filter but I'm going to stick with this combination now.

oh yeah, this is in my 64 MGB. Now I have a case of Castrol 20w50 to use in the lawnmower,, that ought to take me about 24 years! 

 

I've heard bad things about Fram, from a Land Rover forum (I have an 03 Disco in addition to the mgb).  Do the mobil filters have the "check" valve not allowing oil to drain back down?

jayrz,

Last time I tried using multi viscosity oil in a lawnmower I got a lot of smoke and I was then told it was a bad idea by a small engine guy.What the heck, go ahead and try it! It'll keep the skeeters down anyhow...

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon